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[dreamsoftomorrow]

What makes an Empire evil or bad?

The definition is simply that it's ruled by one person, but nowhere does it state that it's also inherently bad.

So, what makes it bad?

Why are we assuming Sen Devadatta is evil when from what I've read in the history books and from the locals, all they did was shut their doors. We don't know the reason yet either.

It's understandable to be wary and suspicious, but I don't think it's a good idea to go in believing we're going to be arrested or worse.

Comments

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[saint_sami]

I think we should be careful no matter what, but don't go running in weapons drawn.

[garyoutensei]

Tch...

Spare me the self-righteous lecture about being polite to people who used fear to consolidate their power. -Her tone was blunt before, but there's a certain cold frustration in it now.-

You put too much faith in societal expectations, ones that are already built to keep masses ignorant and fat cats fed.

[dreamsoftomorrow]

You can't really lecture me on putting too much faith in societal expectations when you're ready to go in weapons drawn, looking for a fight just so you can say "I told you so" when they attack others.

No one's been to Sen Devadatta, so we don't actually know why the power structure changed or how. We don't know what it's like there. If the people are truly living in fear or are actually happy or anything in between.

We don't know enough, but we should be open to finding out without causing trouble.

If you're that unnerved about this place, don't go. You're not required to.

[garyoutensei]

When someone with that kind of influence wants to see you, she's going to find a way to do it, whether you accept the invitation or not.

[dreamsoftomorrow]

Uh... so... you're going because you think the Empress has to the power to make you go? Even though they already said you have no obligation to go?

[He's clearly not following your logic behind this.]

[thegoofball]

idk man maybe empires aren't so bad in theory but power tends to get to people's heads and make them go off the deep end

[Sometimes, that's incredibly literal.]

[private text]

[shinra_dog]

I can't help but assume the worst. I've seen how the inner workings of empires work. And if I was the one organizing this party, it would be the perfect opportunity to take advantage of having my rivals close.

The people who rule empires take power. Whether or not they're aware of it, it's about power. And when in possession of that much of it, even the best person can be compromised.

I hope I'm wrong. But it isn't just the ruler who can make a nation bad. How a ruler turns out is a product of the system.

[dreamsoftomorrow]

Well, you got no argument from me on that. But wouldn't that apply to just about any position of power?

[garyoutensei]

Do you believe everything you're told?

[dreamsoftomorrow]

Just because everything can be a lie doesn't mean it is. They say you don't have to go, so don't go if you don't want to.

[His tone is soft, he's already had to experience finding out everything really was a lie in his world. He doesn't need the lecture.]

Besides, the lie itself isn't really important. It's what you do after you tell it that matters.

text;

[witchwithoutacause]

Mood. +1. All that stuff.

[thegoofball]

yeah, usually, if there's nobody who can keep things in line. empires don't tend to have a safety net if their leader goes absolutely bananas.

but i dunno! i just got here.

[regisrex]

Once again, fear. Both from previous experiences and accounting for the Empress's fear. Among other things, the timing of the change between a democracy and an empire was when the last arrivals from the Dream Width, Biggs and Wedge, came to Vaikuntha. Now arrivals are happening again, and she is inviting us all within her reach. The combination of factor is definitely worrisome.

And yes, of course.

A democracy implies that the people of the country have control. If she was president, then it was a representative democracy - the one variety truly plausible, for a state of a size larger than a city, or a small area. It means that there were elections held periodically, and people could express their will as to what they wanted to happen to their lives through choosing who to represent them. It also means that a governor can be recalled, or replaced, at any time, and they need to perform excellently to be kept in office.

A monarchy, on the other hand, has no such mechanism of checks from the people, and the ruler stays in power until they die, or are overthrown. They do not have to be good rulers, if they have enough strength to resist any resurrection, and it is entirely up to the discretion of the ruler if the needs of the population are attended to.

She might be a good and wise ruler. She might do good for her people.

However, cutting off trade, isolating her people, and, again, reaching for power out of fear, do not suggest that highly likely. As empires go, ten years is not a long time to exist. The fact that there have been no acts of aggression so far mean very little.

I do not think it is wise for *us* to act out of fear. Caution, yes, but not more. However, conscious or not, the compilation of sighs as to what we will probably find can affect people - especially people who are already displaced, far from home, with our own strengths taken away. It's good to be aware that it's probably not the wisest course of action.

Not so much to judge anyone for it.

[garyoutensei]

No thanks. I'm not the "hide and wait" type. I'd rather face my enemy head on, if she sees fit to be my enemy.

Voice

[piume]

[ Neither can Lean stand by and watch while such serious threads are being made. Unlike Hope, he actually sounds mildly annoyed, though reason doesn’t let him raise his voice just yet. ]

Are you insinuating that a leader of a foreign country would seek you out specifically? How self-centered are you?

I hope you’re aware that hostile behaviour can get you persecuted to the full extent of the local law. If that’s how you plan to represent the Center as a whole, I urge you not to go.

[whirluendo_of_puns]

No, I understand where you're coming from. I wouldn't want to paint an entire country as evil before they've even done anything.

It's tough to say how much power the Empress actually wields until we learn more about their system of government. For example -- the country my family originally came from is technically still ruled by an emperor, but the empire itself ended almost a century ago when its territories regained their independence. The actual executive power is now held by the Prime Minister and a cabinet, and the members of the legislature are elected by the people. The emperor is more of a figurehead than anything else.

Considering Sen Devadatta was a democracy just ten years ago, I doubt every citizen was happy with the sudden switch to monarchy. Worst case scenario, the Empress took her own country over by force. Best case scenario, she had to work within the limitations of their existing legal system and is still held accountable to some degree. We won't know until we get there.

Voice

[regisrex]

[ ... ]

Please forgive me for the interjection, since I overall agree with the sentiment that there's such a thing as too much, in this situation, but I would like to ask you to clarify the part where we would be representing the Center.

Was there a part of the invitation that was withheld from us? Because if we were asked as arriving from other worlds, I would have assumed that we would be representing our homes instead.

[ And if they are representing the Center, without outright agreeing to that, the implication of responsibility for their presence here such a thing carries is... at the very least curious. ]

Voice

[piume]

[ Okay, the man has brought up a fair point - and even in his annoyance, Lean has to admit it was an error on his part to present it as such.

... It takes him a moment to cool down. ]

I worded this poorly, I apologise.

[ He sighs, searching for the right way to do this. ]

You have no formal obligations towards the Center itself, that much is true and I’m not going to pretend otherwise. However - [ And here, his tone regains some of the confidence. ] I ask of you to understand we’re dealing with a delicate situation, and therefore can’t stand idly in the face of potential threat of disrupting our relations. We are not capable of telling what the reaction might even be, at this point.

Voice

[regisrex]

Of course. [ About the apology. Because, yes, this is partly what he means in his texts to Hope. There is far too much threatening and too much fear going around. But no harm was done, he thinks.

He hums softly. ]

Believe me, I have a very fair view of how delicate the situation is. I came here fresh out of negotiating with another nation, personally.

That is why I asked - the delicate situation can be shattered by omitted assumption just as badly as by open threats or violence. I know many of us are very grateful to the aid that Curti Center has provided us, and will do our best to repay some of that, so long as it is an expectation that we're aware of.

You and your colleague have been very helpful with bringing us up to speed regarding the history of the Empire. However, by a similar token, please consider what other ways we may be going blind into a different sovereign state. Not something you need to answer right this moment - but we would appreciate it if you would let us know before we depart.

[ Especially since chances are that communications will be monitored, while there. But that's also... staying too close to the paranoia to point out. ]

[dreamsoftomorrow]

I see... being run by a church, doesn't that make it a theocracy of sorts?

[dreamsoftomorrow]

I'll be taking notes myself. [He smiles a little, holding up a notebook already filled with notes.] I'd like to think of it as an opportunity too, but it's also fair to be cautious just in case.

I just... don't know enough. But almost everyone here has been helpful since I've asked. You as well.

[nanaimo_bar]

Yes, they were a theocracy, ruled by Thordan, the Archbishop. He was overthrown when he revealed his intentions for the world, and summoned a Primal into himself. He was defeated by the warrior of light and his companions and his son, Ser Aymeric took over and reforms took place, with some struggle mind you.

voice;

[garyoutensei]

I'm not representing anyone but myself, and it goes without saying that I'm not, in fact, insinuating a fat cat has any interest in an ant like me. I was speaking generally. Which most people would have picked up on.

I'm drunk, what's your excuse? Or are you just stupid?

[dreamsoftomorrow]

Sober up and come back later, please. The point of this post was to learn, not so you can drunkenly rant about your feelings to anyone that has the slightest dispute with you.

[garyoutensei]

Don't bother pretending to be polite with that little "please" there, kid.

You opened up a dialog, I responded. If you don't like what you're hearing, then maybe the problem is you. -A sound of her spitting to the side.-

But fine. I don't stick around where I'm not wanted.